Posts by Sea Breeze

62

Do you know of any church that KNOWS God?

by the-MadJW in

i mean, the jws have many faults, as each of us have.. do you know any other group that does?.

Sea Breeze

enough,

Do you think its possible that the dead souls in heaven described in Rev. 6: 9-11 could have relatives still alive on earth?

62

Do you know of any church that KNOWS God?

by the-MadJW in

i mean, the jws have many faults, as each of us have.. do you know any other group that does?.

Sea Breeze

When I was a kid, before I ever heard about a JW, I knew that Jesus wasn't God almighty.

With all due respect, do you think that basing your beliefs on childish reasoning is wise? I wasn't on board with the deity of Christ when I accepted Christs' new covenant - "for the forgiveness of sins".

I just stood on the scripture that plainly stated that all power had been given him in heaven and earth. I reasoned, that if I made a deal with Jesus, it would be good everywhere based on that verse.

So, a person doesn't need to have everything worked out to start associating with bible-believing Christians. There is MUCH common ground to get started with.

39

Is Russia Bluffing?

by Fisherman in

“supplies of offensive weapons to the kyiv regime would lead to a global catastrophe,” state duma chairman vyacheslav volodin said.

“if washington and nato supply weapons that would be used for striking peaceful cities and making attempts to seize our territory as they threaten to do, it would trigger a retaliation with more powerful weapons.”.

what is russia implying?

Sea Breeze

None of this is any surprise; the time simply came to "punish" Putin for his nationalist ideology.

Is Russia Bluffing?

by Fisherman in

“supplies of offensive weapons to the kyiv regime would lead to a global catastrophe,” state duma chairman vyacheslav volodin said.

“if washington and nato supply weapons that would be used for striking peaceful cities and making attempts to seize our territory as they threaten to do, it would trigger a retaliation with more powerful weapons.”.

what is russia implying?

Sea Breeze

Anony Mouse,

Not sure where you are getting your information. Czech and Slovakia have virtually identical languages. It is the same culture. The goverments are very close, even representing each other to the EU if the other president can't make an appointment. That is normally unheard of in politics. Your statement, "Divided into ethnic groups that really don’t care about their central overlords" certainly couldn't be farther from reality as far as the Czech Republic and Slovakia are concerned.

The only land dispute my relatives who live there have ever heard of is with Germany on the other side of the country, which is not surprising, given Germany's history and the fact that Czechoslavakia was the first country Hitler annexed. As far as the gypsies are concerned that you mention; No one really knows where they came from. They are all over Europe and mostly live off state welfare.

From the article I posted from a conference on Russia:

"Putin invaded Ukraine after the U.S. rejected his demand for a guarantee that Ukraine not join NATO. We don’t have to excuse Putin, but we should note that, until quite recently, having Ukraine in NATO was a prospect that struck even many American foreign policy thinkers as a bad idea. These included George Kennan, who was one of the architects of the NATO alliance when the Cold War began in the late 1940s. Kennan was still alert and active, at about 90 years of age, when NATO won the Cold War at the turn of the 1990s. And in 1997, during the Clinton administration, he warned that American plans to push NATO borders “smack up to those of Russia” was the “greatest mistake of the entire post–Cold War era.”

In a world that is becoming increasingly globalist, Putin is still a nationalist. That's the "problem".

58

Did the ransom sacrifice even work?

by Sharpie in

shower thought entered my mind the other day... jesus christ.

as per doctrine.

is still alive in heaven right now correct?

Sea Breeze

In Psalm 49:15, we then read, “But God will ransom my soul from the power of Sheol, for he will receive me.”

Vanderhoven7,

Doesn't the above scripture you cited indicate that Sheol is the recipient of the payment? We even have an fairly common expression today, "He will have hell to pay for that".

Seems to indicate that Sheol is the recipinent of the payment, not God. This fits ratheer nicely with scripture which says, "the wages of sin is death".

Jesus paid hell for us.

62

Do you know of any church that KNOWS God?

by the-MadJW in

i mean, the jws have many faults, as each of us have.. do you know any other group that does?.

Sea Breeze

My advice is to find a church with local governance:

Bible Churches

Baptist Churches

Non- Denominational Churches

Calvary Chapel Churches

58

Did the ransom sacrifice even work?

by Sharpie in

shower thought entered my mind the other day... jesus christ.

as per doctrine.

is still alive in heaven right now correct?

Sea Breeze

So you see, the ransom was something that God required or demanded in order to satisfy his standard of justice so he could save mankind without offending his attribute of justice.

No, I don't see. The death penalty is what was demanded. It is the death penalty that satisfies the demands of Justice, not the ransom. "The wages of sin is death".

If you have ever broken any of the ten commandments, you are going to die and later be tried. You will be resurrected after the thousand year reign and will stand trial, fully resurrected in your own body. At this trial, you will be "judged by your deeds". Believers on the other hand will not be judged by their deeds, they are judged vicariously by the deeds of Jesus - "the just for the unjust" - "There is therefore NOW, no condemnation for those in Christ". Romans 8: 1

But we are all sure to face judgment:

"it is appointed unto man once to die, and then judgment". - Heb. 9: 27

There is a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous. The righteous are "resurrected unto life and the unrighteous are resurrected unto damnation". Either way, the death penalty will be imposed either vicariously or personally as a just punishment for the sins you are guilty of (not Adam).

Adam had not excuse to sin but imperfect humans can argue as king David said in the Psalms, that they were born that way so on what just standard could God abandon mankind without demanding justice —that is to say, the ransom.

This is just twisted upside-down thinking, born from an unsaved and sociopathic mind. A mind with a 7th grade education who believed they were prophesied about in scripture and was appointed ruler over all the earth. This is where you got your theology. Russell was a madman who believed his own manure. The world knows all about Russell.

My bible says that man has no excuse: "since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse" - Romans 1: 20

In Job 41:11 we find God stating that He doesn’t owe anyone anything.

“Who has given to Me, that I should repay him? Whatever is under the whole heaven is Mine.”

It is like those infected with WT theology are under some sort of spell and are totally incapable of understanding the idea of grace and are innoculated against receiving it. God owes you nothing but death and condemnation.

I understand you have your own theology- that I totally disagree with-

You are hearing a clear presentation of the gospel that Christians are unified around, whether they are Calvinists, amillinialists or post tribulationists. This "ministry of reconciliation" started with the apostles and is preached unaltered by hundreds of millions of Christians. It is widely understood and firmly rooted in scripture as securely as anything can be.

The Russell gospel of: God owing us a ransom is a false gospel, designed to obscure God's offer of a "free gift" . How can you accept a free gift if it is owed to you as you describe? ... and you must receive it for it to become activated on your behalf:

"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ." - 2 Cor. 5: 21

See, how the WT ranson doctrine is designed to steal your opportunity? You must RECEIVE the GIFT of righteousness. If God owes you something like the WT teaches, it is no longer a gift and you cannot receive a gift that is not there. Now can you see the WT steal?

Disconnect from the WT matrix and read your bible.

58

Did the ransom sacrifice even work?

by Sharpie in

shower thought entered my mind the other day... jesus christ.

as per doctrine.

is still alive in heaven right now correct?

Sea Breeze

@ Fisherman

Wow... where to start ? First of all, I am sympathetic to your WT indoctrination. I was a 4th generation JW and regular pioneer when I woke up. It took several years sitting in a decent bible-believing church to undo WT insanity. But here goes:

Legally speaking, as Alan F pointed out, how is it just for humanity to suffer and die after justice was served with the payment of the ransom.

First of all AlanF was just another unsaved XJW that had no grasp of Christinaity just like we all were at one time. There are actually three parts to humans. Soul, Body, and Spirit. Only the spirit is renewed and immortalized in man upon getting saved. This is characterized as a downpayment in scripture of the full restoratation to come pertaining to the other two parts - soul and body.

Secondly, a person must accept the death penalty payment on their behalf in order for the contract "for the forgivness of sins" to be ratified on their behalf. It's kinda like when you ask a girl out on a date. If she says no, you don't throw a fit, you eventually move on.

The physical effects of the antibiotics starting to work are felt during the millennium. Jesus resurrected the dead, restored people to good health is proof that the ransom works.

There are no resurrections described during the Millinium Reign. This is a total unbiblical WT fabrication. What scriptures can you point to the say this? None. The reality is that when unsaved people are resurrected, it is done at the END of the Thousand Year Reign. - "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished"

And, it is to face judgment at the Great White Throne, not to pet Panda bears like the WT deceives.

So to answer the question raised in the Topic, Jesus gave empirical evidence that the ransom works—for some people, the ones that were healed by Jesus. That is not really the issue that the ransom works.

The proof that we have is Jesus' resurrection. It is our guarantee along with his word since Jesus said that he would resurrect himself from the dead and then did it. This alone is the object of the Christian faith - Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. No other evidence is needed beyond this. If Jesus' was RAISED FROM THE DEAD, THEN OUR RESURRECTION IS JUST AS SECURE TOO.... if we agree to the terms.

The tension is that Adam sinned resulting in God demanding justice in the payment of a ransom

Wrong.... God demanded death as payment of sin - ours. God never demanded a ransom. That is just nuts. Where is that in scripture? God provided a ransom because Jesus (who was also God in his Spirit) said that he would do it. He specifically said that "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again." John 10: 17

There is no legal imperative for God to save anyone. Salvation is a kindness... undeserved, unmerited and legally unnecessary. Your next breath is a gift from God, because his has a rule, the punishment of sin is death.

to him and since justice was served, what is the legal reason for humans to suffer so horribly and die ((and especially caused by Christianity instead of christianity at least mitigating human suffering). The application of the ransom is not a legal reason why humans are required to suffer and die when somebody else already did that for all humans, Jesus. Legally speaking, why is the ransom not working physically?— Playing devil’s advocate.

Didn't really make a lot of sense out of this statement. But, in a nutshell the Godward effect of Jesus, death, burial and resurrection is called propitiation. It means that God ruled that a VICARIOUS death penalty is acceptable to him and would be allowed to be applied in place of a sinner if he or she chooses.

The manward effect of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ is called reconciliation. But no where is reconciliation said to save a person. It simply refers to its availability. In other words, man is now savable.

Jesus offers the actual contract "for forgivness of sins" in Mt. 26: 27-28. This is the contract that JW's reject at each memorial.

If a person does not believe that Jesus was raised from the dead and if they do not accept this contract "for the forgivness of sins", then both the legal concession (Propitiation) and the availability (Reconciliation) are moot.

What you are missing is the vicarious nature of the actual sacrifice "the just for the unjust" - 1 Peter 3: 18

You see Fisherman, Jesus didn't die to "buy back what Adam lost". That is way to general of a statement to understand anything meaningful. What happened is that Jesus actually "became sin"... just like when the ancient priests would place the sins of a person on an animal and slaughter the animal in place of the sinner.

The animal suffered the death penalty in place of the sinner. Remember when the priests would place the sins of the people on a goat and send it away into he wilderness to face certain death? That is what Jesus did for you. He want's to take your death penalty for you, in your place. Because he loves you and saw what a terrible predicament we are in. He want's to be your scape goat, if you'll place your sins on him.

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor. 2: 21

See how we trade places with Jesus? That is the exchage.... if a person wants it. The WT tries everything they can to hide this simlpe and beautiful offer. It is a very generous offer.

39

Is Russia Bluffing?

by Fisherman in

“supplies of offensive weapons to the kyiv regime would lead to a global catastrophe,” state duma chairman vyacheslav volodin said.

“if washington and nato supply weapons that would be used for striking peaceful cities and making attempts to seize our territory as they threaten to do, it would trigger a retaliation with more powerful weapons.”.

what is russia implying?

Sea Breeze

invasions into other states such as Czech Republic (which is like Ukraine, divided into ethnic groups that really don’t care about their central overlords),

I regularly go to Czech Republic and don't understand this comment. Czechs very much care about their democratic government and are sick of this war. It has increased the price of most everything. There are no "overlords" there. They are not a fan of Russia I can assure you, them having occupied their country from 1968 to 1988. The feedback I am getting is that Zelensky is viewed as a narcissistic and crooked sleezeball. Many Ukrainians are in their country instead of staying and fighting for Zelensky.

No one is afraid of Russia invading Czech Republic from there that I am aware of. I talk with people from there every few weeks or so. Czechs believe this can be resolved diplomatically, but NATO keeps it going along with the USA by sending Zelensky hundreds of billions of $$$.

The West is getting scammed by Zelensky. Maybe its Zelensky dancing in high heels that compels NATO and the USA to flood him with money?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CDJejIZOgU

Anyway, the Czech's have a better understanding of the complexities of the war than western europe and especially the USA.

This is a good article on the situation.

29

Jesus Never Limited His Promies to 144K

by Sea Breeze in

what were we thinking?

mat_10:32 whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will i confess also before my father which is in heaven.. mat_10:33 but whosoever shall deny me before men, him will i also deny before my father which is in heaven.. mat_12:50 for whosoever shall do the will of my father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.. mat_16:25 for whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.. mat_18:4 whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.. mar_10:15 verily i say unto you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of god as a little child, he shall not enter therein.. luk 6:47,48 whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, i will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man .

which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock.

Sea Breeze

All of those Whosoevers, does not change that. Salvation is more than going to heaven and Jesus knew that.

Rattigan,

Scripture says that we must be justified to be saved from wrath.

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

But the WT says that only 144K are justified (declared righteous). In WT theology, how does those who are not declaed righteous saved from wrath?

The WT has never addressed this question; which is the most important question a person can ask a JW.